SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You’re not walking away early, you’re walking away after months of watching her continue the affair in real time. If anything, the greater regret tends to come from staying too long in a situation that keeps hurting you.

Ding ding ding ding! Perfectly said 🤌

I always say that you have to deal with the person who is standing in front of you today.

She may have been a fantastic wife in the past, but how can that possibly detract to what she is doing today? She is ripping your heart out. I don't necessarily believe that she is this master manipulator who is walking you around by puppet strings, and I absolutely believe that she was blindsided when reality started to hit her. But what she has done, instead of trying in the least bit to acknowledge the pain that you are in, is to put herself first....as usual....for the last couple of years. From what you describe, it even goes back much longer than that. Instead of realizing that you were sacrificing(as couples that work as a team often do) by putting her needs first so she could caregive, she instead focused on herself, and decided to put herself first....although she had been doing that for a looooong time prior, I would bet.

How on Earth do you shit where you eat, especially on something that was so important to her, unless you are that selfish, reckless, and oblivious to everything outside your immediate world? And to double down when given the choice of her 18 year marriage or her 2 year career, tells you just how off her compass is at this point in her life.

And this is the person that you have to deal with. The one standing in front of you.

I do not see how this could work. She has made it clear that her job takes priority over you and the family. On top of that she refuses to leave the job/sell her interest in the business. On top of ALL of that, she still communicates with her AP AND she's going to travel with him!

You will be a wreck the first time she says she has to go on a business trip. No matter how she tries to convince you that nothing will happen you are going to rightfully believe something will.

If you are not each other's number one priority the relationship is broken.

Please do not put yourself thru this torture. Continue with your divorce plan. If she does a 180 and agrees to leave the company then m a y b e you have a chance of R. But as long as she continues to work there, have contact with him, travel with him, you are going to be miserable.

ETA: I posted in your other thread that I think there's a possibility that she (and her AP) are stalling for time to get their ducks in a row. Please do not let her dictate YOUR timeline. Her priorities are the business, her AP, then you and the kids.

Every time my wife mentions the woman she shares an office with I am reminded of her affair because, according to my wife, her female coworker directed the AP's attention towards my wife. I think it's fabricated BS but nonetheless I am reminded.

[This message edited by WB1340 at 5:36 AM, Saturday, September 12th]

Soon2B,

I first want state how sorry I am that you are being abused in this fashion. The mental and emotional anguish are unspeakable.

Couple questions and comments....

Question: You mentioned that when you said you wanted divorce, only then did she seem to awakened to the consequences. Do you really think those "consequences" are truly related to your marriage? I am asking you to consider the possibility that those consequences could be more related to what she potentially may lose with respect to her start-up company?

I mean, the courts technically could rule that 50% of her stake in the company is actually yours and she would have to come up with equity to pay you. That is a real world consequence she may not want to face.

The reason I say this is because the relational issues that you are suffering do not seem to be moving the needle in her mind and heart. In other words, she has not tried to make changes to mitigate the consequences already apparent.

The next item is related to how you said something to affect that you cannot stand to see her cry....and when you do you have to comfort her.

I get that, I really do. And under normal relationship circumstances that would be wonderful. But really friend, she is your enemy right now. She has betrayed your love, your trust, your vows, and much more. And she continues to disrespect you.

And she sees you comforting her. This is dangerous. You really must flip the matrix with which you evaluate and react to her.

She is clear she will not go NC. And she has still been confiding in him emotionally. Her affair is ongoing.

She is not safe.

There is a woman out there who would chose you friend.

💪

You asked if there is any precedent for recovering a marriage while the two affair party still works together.

I am about to get absolutely publicly pilloried for my take on this, but the answer is "of course, yes".

I have no doubt that there are instances where two people who had an affair as coworkers went on to recover their marriages and also keep their jobs and interactions on a professional level after exposure.

The question of "no contact forever" wasn’t around 50 years ago. What used to happen is the female would get fired, the end, if they were caught at work. I suppose this is version of no contact.

As time changed, I think the idea of no contact seems to have evolved, maybe around the 1990’s when it was more well known and prescribed as one component to recovery and reconciliation. I don’t have any studies to offer you, but my personal experience of living with a cheater since 1975. So each time, when I needed help on this, the counseling changed. Back around the late 1990’s and early 2000’s, there emerged a "meet one another’s needs" philosophy on this, blaming infidelity on a failure to meet the needs of your spouse, so they cheated. It delineated all sorts of needs, and was popularized by a book called His Needs, Her Needs.

There are still websites that recommend this "needs" approach, but they seem to be dwindling from the levels of 2005 when I was looking for help then.

The larger question is "what are the odds that my spouse has the moral fortitude to finally stand up and forever do the right thing, even when tempted, even when upset, even when opportunity knocks?" In my case, I found that fortitude after a really bad decision in 1976 and a ONS. In my husband’s case, he did not, because he has had seven affair partners over the course of our marriage.

And because he did not, the coworker from long ago contacted him, they started talking "as friends", and they began an affair again.

Which do you think is more common?

I do have a question.

Have you and your wife given any consideration to trying to buy out the OM?

This could leave her the business and get rid of him.

Well, about 10 days ago I caught her again messaging AP about the family trip we just took and revealing that she couldn't stop thinking about him.

Here is the problem. He's still in her heart.

Has she proactively started therapy with an infidelity specialist in order to get him out of her heart mind body and soul? Until that happens rebuilding with you CANNOT EVEN BEGIN. What you too are doing is futile until she has done the work to see him not as a potential love partner, but instead as the threat to the man she married and made vows to and her marriage.

I'm sorry but that is the truth.

If it were me, I would tell her that you are moving on without her to heal and find your happiness and until she can tell u she has worked with an infidelity specialist for at least 6 months to remove this man from her heart, that there is no way you can even begin to build a new relationship with her.

I know, it's hard. But love is not enough to make a relationship. It requires so much more. Love Honor Cherish Protect from your wedding vows. She's not really doing any of those things.

If you can bring yourself to move forward with the legal action it may become more real for her and make her really consider what she is losing. They say you have to be willing to lose the marriage in order to save it.

You may think what you are doing right now is trying to save the marriage when what you are really doing is just enabling her to keep you both at the same time and continue the affair. The message at the top here proves that.

Work with your trauma therapist for support and take the next steps legally. The result will be that she takes real action to rid him from her life and her heart in 6-24 months or 6 months from now you'll be on a path out of her infidelity and finding happiness on your own.

I'm sorry for your pain.

If it were me, I would tell her that you are moving on without her to heal and find your happiness and until she can tell u she has worked with an infidelity specialist for at least 6 months to remove this man from her heart, that there is no way you can even begin to build a new relationship with her.

So you think so long as she sees an "infidelity specialist", she’s good to keep (likely) DAILY contact with her AP/co-founder and that’s all going to magically work out with no further betrayal whatsoever?

I don’t think anyone here can truly say their adultery will resume with 100% probability as she continues to work INTIMATELY with her AP. We’re just saying it’s 99% chance that they do. Why accept that?

What is indisputable is that OP’s wife values the startup more than her marriage and family. It’s your life OP, so if you’re ok with that, and are OK with the two of them most likely resuming their evil activities and sharing your wife, then have at it.

In that case, consider at least getting a post-nuptial in place. By rights, half of her shares in the startup belong to you (unless she’s already set up some shenanigans like a trust), and I have almost no doubt she and her AP are figuring out how to manage that problem. One thing they could try is to get a low-ball valuation for the startup so when the inevitable D happens (initiated by her if not by you first) is so that she’ll be able to keep her shares by paying you off some pittance as ‘compensation’. Don’t let that happen!

Interestingly enough my therapist just sent my homework after yesterday’s session. Reading up on fawning behavior. Looks like I’m Bambi

Soon2B, you know my advice from your JFO thread. The shame you think you now feel from your WW's affair will be minimal when you look back several years from now. You will feel much more shame in how you reacted to finding out about the affair and how you responded to try to 'fix' your wife and 'save' your marriage. You risk crushing your self-esteem. Your WW is basically asking for a one-sided open marriage, you ok with that? Is that how you want to live?

So you think so long as she sees an "infidelity specialist", she’s good to keep (likely) DAILY contact with her AP/co-founder and that’s all going to magically work out with no further betrayal whatsoever?

I don’t think anyone here can truly say their adultery will resume with 100% probability as she continues to work INTIMATELY with her AP. We’re just saying it’s 99% chance that they do. Why accept that?

Nope. You are putting words in my mouth.

The OP knows that them going NC is required, so many have said it here I didn't feel I needed to repeat it.

And First of all I think it's unlikely she'll do any work with any therapist. But if she does, my post is stating OP should not wait around while it happens. IMO He should tell her the only chance she has is if she does that work. Then move on and not wait for her to complete it.

I only took this approach because OP has strongly professed a desire to reconcile. He even has indicated that in his most recent update.

So I am urging him to state his boundaries for rebuilding and then move on until she has met them. Reconciliation of any kind cannot start while she continues to profess affection of any kind for the AP. So my advice is to tell her that until she completes that work to remove him from her heart, that he is moving on without her.

Again IMO that's the only chance that exists for a successful rebuilding.

And yes, removing the AP from their lives should be the goal. Absolutely it needs to be a part of the rebuilding if it's ever going to happen.

But In my experience, telling someone over and over again that they should just D when they are clearly not ready to take that step is not the kind of advice they need at the moment, so providing some kind of plan that gives a chance (albeit small) of the marriage surviving is a more helpful way for the BS to find their path to a happy life, one way or another.

OP should never guarantee that they will rebuild even if she does that work. But he can simultaneously provide the requirement and then move on without waiting a lifetime for her to maybe decide to do it and then make an attempt to achieve it.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 11:45 PM, Monday, September 14th]

But In my experience, telling someone over and over again that they should just D when they are clearly not ready to take that step is not the kind of advice they need at the moment, so providing some kind of plan that gives a chance (albeit small) of the marriage surviving is a more helpful way for the BS to find their path to a happy life, one way or another.

I believe the best and only chance he has at *potentially* saving his marriage is to START D. That’s the one and only action that *MAY* wake her up and snap her out of her "fog" of limerence or whatever. It’s not a manipulation move, it’s a "I’m moving on since I’m not willing to be in a 1-sided-open-relationship" declaration that maybe just maybe causes her to stop and truly think this out. As I’ve repeatedly said, it’s his life, and he can choose to be #3 in his wife’s world, and I support his right to choose whatever he wants. I think initiating D is a form of "To save your M you must be willing to lose it". Not that I think she’ll magically turn around, but instead, if there’s ANYTHING that MIGHT snap her out of hit, it would be D papers. If she goes along with the D, you know R was never going to work.

I can tell you one simple thing, you asked for brutal honesty:

There is about zero truly reformed wayward partners who could tolerate to just even meet their affair partner casually on the street.

And this is just about everything you need to know.

The minimization and rugsweeping is your coping mechanism from the trauma and the attachment wound. You aren’t loved. You are managed.

There’s no better or worse person by default in this world brother, we can all shine and we can all suck. The potential of everyone is immense. There is only the person you choose to embrace.

She chose to embrace that.

What does your intimate self desire to embrace?

[This message edited by BackfromtheStorm at 7:35 AM, Tuesday, September 15th]

I've been keeping an eye on this thread, but have been too busy with work, kids, and honestly, grieving about this whole experience to respond to everything. But this last message:

There is about zero truly reformed wayward partners who could tolerate to just even meet their affair partner casually on the street.

If that's true, which I imagine it is for the truly reformed, it's a powerful insight.

If that's true, which I imagine it is for the truly reformed, it's a powerful insight.

You can ask reformed waywards here. I believe they will tell you just how they would feel in meeting their past affair partner.

It’s not the same as meeting an ex. Is to meet the foulest most awful version of yourself. If you are reformed you are disgusted just by remembering you could have stood so low.

Meeting the AP is traumatic.

You can ask reformed waywards here. I believe they will tell you just how they would feel in meeting their past affair partner.

It’s not the same as meeting an ex. Is to meet the foulest most awful version of yourself. If you are reformed you are disgusted just by remembering you could have stood so low.

Meeting the AP is traumatic.

My wife's AP was a co worker. Long story short, he's an idiot and got himself fired and trespassed from company property for reasons unrelated to her or the affair. Several months later he showed up there to do some shopping because he lives close by. Or he may have been intending on "bumping into" my wife... we can't know for sure. He probably figured the trespass warning had blown over because it's common for management to be transferred around and he likely wouldn't be recognized or forgotten about. He was right.

She doesn't know if he saw her, but she saw him. She immediately had a very strong negative visceral reaction, ducked into a side office, and reported his presence to supervision. She informed them he had been trespassed, makes her feel unsafe, and that she wasn't leaving the office until he was gone. She stayed in that office until he was escorted out of the building and warned that the police would be called next time.

She knew it had potential to upset me, but she told me about it when she came home anyway.

I don't know if it's a universal reaction for all reformed wayward spouses, but I think Storm just unintentionally described my wife's experience. He disgusts her and I think seeing him did remind her of the worst version of herself. She wants absolutely nothing to do with him. She doesn't even like hearing his name mentioned.

[This message edited by Pogre at 11:49 PM, Tuesday, September 15th]

NC is something strongly advocated for here on this site for numerous reasons, but like nearly everything regarding human behavior and infidelity; it’s a guideline rather than a rule set in stone.
We do have couples here on SI that are reconciled or working at reconciliation but with ongoing contact of some form or another with the former affair partner. None of them will tell you that it makes things easier though.

If the WS – in this instance the wife – were to commit to the marriage, then she might be capable of doing so while keeping a strictly professional relationship with OM.
However… there are too many hurdles in the way to make that probable.
For one, her reluctance right away to do so. Her broken promise that it’s over, only to be caught messaging him on non-professional and emotional issues.
Then there is the unrealistic expectation to the BS to be OK with travel where the WS and OP are together. Even if the WS remains professional and is totally committed to the marriage, the doubt, worry, concern, anxiety… is placing too much on the shoulders of the BS.

If we were to compare reconciliation to a Marathon race, then NC would be like at least ensuring you are wearing the proper shoes. Ongoing, unavoidable contact… that’s not only removing the shoes, but replacing them with heavy boots and having you drag a grand-piano behind you as you run the race – dressed as Big Bird. It makes an already daunting task near impossible.

Once again: What I find interesting is that now when there is nothing preventing them from having a relationship neither seems intent on doing so. Maybe it’s a Madrid/Spain thing…

What I find interesting is that now when there is nothing preventing them from having a relationship neither seems intent on doing so.

General cake eating? She want's both. Doesn't seem abnormal to me. Saw tons of this before.

Perhaps she doesn't want to be with her AP fully, just enjoys the support on the side and fun sex.

If he accepts that AP will always be around, she can slowly ease back into her affair whilst keeping her marriage. Some people want both.

I'd put a lot of money on them getting together more openly if he were to divorce.

[This message edited by DRSOOLERS at 4:36 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

Soon2B, you asked for feedback from WS. So here is mine: she is not remaining professional with her AP; she has seen how much her infidelity hurt you and she is STILL engaging in it behind your back. My recommendation to continue moving towards divorce.

I could see maybe trying reconciliation IF she were to leave the company, or do something like have a third party deliver actually professional, strictly necessary communication between her and the AP, and refuse to travel with him. And you would probably need to check her devices and whereabouts frequently, which seems like a headache even if it provides reassurance.

As someone who had an affair with a coworker and could not immediately leave my job... I went NC and I don't regret it. I don't ever want to see my AP again. I am dreading next summer's required work trip where I might encounter him again, and I am planning to pretend like I don't know him. Other reformed, genuinely remorseful WS report feeling similarly about their AP. That's the level of "moved on" you should be looking for.

As a wayward-

i want to first say i am so sorry that you are going through this. she may be saying its over, but her actions- and lack of actions to go NC show that its not.

i also agree with the other WS's that describe how seeing the AP would feeling as a WS who is committed/ in process of R. The thought of seeing my AP (which i have been blessed to not see them) makes me incredibly anxious- if i were to see them i would be booking it in the other direction. Its not only seeing them- but also confronting the worst version of yourself and biggest regret.

If the WS isn't feeling at least some of those emotions it leads me to thinking that either 1. affair is still ongoing- whether she is admitting it or not 2.she is waiting for you to cave and calm down they can return to the affair behavior

she isn't taking you seriously and with the devastation she has caused you definitely do not deserve that. other posters here have also brought up, even if she does go NC (as far as she could with still working there) her still working there will likely cause you HORRIBLE triggers, every milestone and achievement could be a dagger to you. and i cant imagine trying to recover in an environment that she is still in that workplace and has any type of contact.

I am sorry that you are having to go through all of this and having to watch her continue to prioritize work and the AP over making you feel safe and reconciling.

i think you know what is best for you, and what your heart and mind can handle. it just sucks to have to do it.

[This message edited by feelinglikeadumpsterfire at 5:41 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

One thing that is bothering me about your situation is the following.

Soon2B, when you first came here, you said you had insisted on NC and she declined. She wanted to stay married but not quit her job.

You then caught her email to him and told her you were divorcing her.

For the three weeks that followed, I imagine you thought of little else. You got your lawyer spun up. You initiated conversations on the details of the D.

What did she do? Nothing. She didn’t get a lawyer. And she didn’t even show signs of having thought about it really at all. The only idea she had was exactly the same idea she had at the beginning: nothing changes for her. Same marriage, same job. She didn’t even have any new ideas about how that could work, she just told you there "has to be a way (for her to get what she wants).

CEOs of companies are responsible for crafting the strategic direction of their businesses. So she can think strategically. She seems to have done none of that as regards your R.